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Post by Kamuna on Aug 11, 2014 19:05:02 GMT
Well, with the introduction of skill buttons, they haven't really had much use outside of Umineko mode. The idea is for skills to create a better combat experience for players, so it doesn't just consist of hit and run. There are different types of skills that can be implemented:
(REWRITTEN SO SORRY IF IT IS SHORTER AND CRAPPIER THAN WHAT I WANTED IT TO BE THE FIRST TIME)
Customizable Skillsets:
Everyone has access to every skill available... However, they are limited in what they can choose. Skills may be limited by number. Or, they may be limited by the weight of the skills. Players may be able to choose their skills before the round begins (or perhaps within the first hour of the round, too).
Examples: Defense, Counterattack, Devestating Blow
Weapon Skillsets:
Once you equip a weapon of choice, you may use any of the skills in that weapon's arsenal.
Examples: Charged Punch (Fists), Windmill (Spear), Home-run Smash (Bats).
Character-specific Skillsets:
The random generator kicks in, giving a player a random skillset, preset, or character-based skillset.
Examples: Tentacle Hair (Grey Haired Girl), Reflection (Sunglasses), Cabbage Patch Kid (Green Haired Boy)
Everyone's Skillset:
Everyone starts with a generic skillset.
Examples: Defense, Counterattack, Devestating Blow
Example of Skills:
Defense: A timed defensive skill, reduces damage of an opponent's attack, must activate within X milliseconds of getting hit, with a cooldown of X seconds.
Charged Punch: Higher cooldown, startup, and drain than a normal punch, but does more damage and has a X% chance of stun.
Reflection: Reflects the light off your sunglasses to temporarily blind an opponent. Cooldown of X seconds.
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Post by MetaFrosty on Aug 12, 2014 4:41:05 GMT
Doesn't seem to be too popular but I think weapon based skills would be the best. It would further set aside weapons from each other and give them more individual traits (Possibly freeing up room to add even more later).
Plus if you can see what your opponent is holding, you're able to aptly change your strategy to handle the skill that weapon possesses, whereas customizable skills will make it hard to know how to approach a fight. This would increase the skill ceiling and lend itself to strategy, rather than just going at it with what you have and hoping for the best that your skills will trump your opponent's.
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Post by Kamuna on Aug 12, 2014 5:44:49 GMT
Yeah, I was stuck between Customization and Weapon Skillsets, but went with customization because it involves more thinking (sacrifice power for a small amount of skills?), and you have less skills to deal with in the span of a round. My first idea was the Weapon ones though. They would even out the playing field a bit, so you wouldn't be completely helpless with a weaker weapon.
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Post by Komaeda on Aug 17, 2014 7:46:40 GMT
To be perfectly frank, this "improvement" on the combat system seems hardly necessary to me. And since it can also (negatively) affect the roleplay, I see it more as an issue now.
Regardless, if it simply has to happen, I'd like to bring up the alternative of instead of being a "skill point" system, for it to be simply "choose one passive skill" system. Even though I do believe it can be a nice addition to the game, as it allows you to customize your character, the combat is not the focus of the game and therefore I see no reason as to why it has to be anything other than the very basic. The more it relies on player "skill" (timed skills) rather than simply luck (passives with a chance of triggering), passives that are always in effect, or actives, the (even) farther it gets from the focus of the game, roleplaying.
Also, it's now convenient to hinder your roleplay since it lets you have more combat skills. If one wants to roleplay as mute, blind, whisperer, deaf or what have you, it's fine, but it can be handled simply by RPing it. Things such as having slightly better hearing/sight or having a slightly louder/quieter voice aren't really possible in-RP so far, so skills that allow those would be fine. However, none of those should affect nor be affected by combat skills. In other words, if it simply has to happen, I'm suggesting that RP and combat skills be separated.
Of course, all will/would be solved with a server skill toggle, but those are my suggestion to the skill system in itself regardless of whether it'll be toggleable or not.
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Sawrock
New Member
Posts: 10 
Byond key: Sawrock
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Post by Sawrock on Aug 17, 2014 18:25:59 GMT
I agree that skills should be able to be turned off and on, server-wide.
I do, however, like the skills like they are right now. We just need more. Maybe another passive that lets you see in the dark more and more, the more you stack it?
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Post by Kamuna on Aug 18, 2014 0:09:05 GMT
To be perfectly frank, this "improvement" on the combat system seems hardly necessary to me. And since it can also (negatively) affect the roleplay, I see it more as an issue now. Regardless, if it simply has to happen, I'd like to bring up the alternative of instead of being a "skill point" system, for it to be simply "choose one passive skill" system. Even though I do believe it can be a nice addition to the game, as it allows you to customize your character, the combat is not the focus of the game and therefore I see no reason as to why it has to be anything other than the very basic. The more it relies on player "skill" (timed skills) rather than simply luck (passives with a chance of triggering), passives that are always in effect, or actives, the (even) farther it gets from the focus of the game, roleplaying. Also, it's now convenient to hinder your roleplay since it lets you have more combat skills. If one wants to roleplay as mute, blind, whisperer, deaf or what have you, it's fine, but it can be handled simply by RPing it. Things such as having slightly better hearing/sight or having a slightly louder/quieter voice aren't really possible in-RP so far, so skills that allow those would be fine. However, none of those should affect nor be affected by combat skills. In other words, if it simply has to happen, I'm suggesting that RP and combat skills be separated. Of course, all will/would be solved with a server skill toggle, but those are my suggestion to the skill system in itself regardless of whether it'll be toggleable or not. I don't believe it hinders roleplay. Stacking negative roleplay skills isn't going to give you much for combat, maybe one more combat skill. Negative skills can also be fun to RP out. I know I do enjoy the effect that being Blind has, it is much better than just RPing it. Since you are at a disadvantage in RP, you are also at a disadvantage in combat, as being quiet isn't probably going to help you get a teammate on your side. People who are good at RP but bad at combat can use much more positive social skills than positive combat skills, making their RP more effective. Negative combat skills give you back much more skillpoints than negative social skills in comparison, so it is more convenient to negate your combat skills rather than your social skills for specialized skillsets. The server toggle is coming at version 2.00 anyhow. |
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Post by Kamuna on Aug 20, 2014 20:44:01 GMT
Whisperer only takes -0.1 skillpoints so it's really not worth it and probably not even possible to stack Whisperer if you're planning to simply get another combat skill. It's only really useful when using RP skills, as those cost less for the most part.
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Post by Komaeda on Aug 21, 2014 3:04:40 GMT
Do excuse me, apparently it was posted for some reason. As you certainly could see I'd left it mostly incomplete and was going to finish/improve my reply later...yet it sent anyway. And I'd rather not leave unfinished/broken thoughts on display.
I'll make a new and shorter one I suppose.
The fact that there will be a way to toggle is reassuring and could validly void everything I have to say, but I believe that shouldn't stop me from trying to point out what I consider issues with the skill system to "improve" it, to avoid having to resort to disabling it altogether and losing its customization potential.
To clarify, I've nothing against the social skills per se, as they allow a gameplay experience which was not possible previously. I'd argue that the "whisperer" is the most shaky one, as it's something you could already do perfectly previously, simply adding a chance to do it unintentionally. But that's not something I consider an actual issue and I don't intend to drag the subject.
However, even though you are correct, my main complaint that RP and Combat skills affect each other still stands, and I've not yet seen why it must be that way. It's nothing about how much points they take/give, really, but that they affect each other in the first place.
Clearly it's convenient for some who wish to focus on either RP or combat, as they can focus the improvements on their choice and penalize the other if needed, but why is it mattering whether the players are "good" roleplayers/fighters?
If it got to the point where "player skill" starts becoming even more of a factor, then I'd say it's heading...a questionable way.
This also chains to my other complaint about why combat skills are not either depending on luck (such as rising/lowering chance to dodge/counter/hit/critical) or absolute (such as dealing/taking more/less damage , or rising/lowering the character's default movement speed). In other words, the existence of timed/active skills.
I hope I've made my main points clearer this time, as I'm aware of my tendency to...not do that.
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Post by Kamuna on Aug 21, 2014 17:53:56 GMT
The timed/active skills are for players who enjoy an interactive combat system. I absolutely HATE combat systems that aren't interactive (just pressing one thing all the time or not controlling your character during combat, no stuns on the enemy, etc.), and so those cater to players like me. Removing those will be unfair to those types of players. The system is balanced in a way that timed/active skills don't give an advantage over passive skills, giving higher cooldowns and small time windows for activation, so that player skill doesn't become a factor if players don't want it to. They can choose either system: Neither will give them the advantage in combat. It's all about personal tastes, and I rather have variety than just luck as a factor. 'Cause that sucks. Hard. (To me.)
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